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	<title>Comments on: LETTER TO THE EDITOR: Firefighters Respond To City Council&#8217;s Police Cuts</title>
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	<link>http://www.waterlandblog.com/2009/12/17/letter-to-the-editor-firefighters-respond-to-city-councils-police-cuts/</link>
	<description>Local News, Events, Photos, Videos &#38; More for Des Moines, WA</description>
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		<title>By: Nick</title>
		<link>http://www.waterlandblog.com/2009/12/17/letter-to-the-editor-firefighters-respond-to-city-councils-police-cuts/comment-page-1/#comment-1998</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 00:37:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.waterlandblog.com/?p=3678#comment-1998</guid>
		<description>Well said. The meetings were extremely empty when it came to the cops budget. When parks and rec were on the chopping block, people were sitting on the floor. Even kids, got up to speak and tell council to save parks so they have activities to participate in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said. The meetings were extremely empty when it came to the cops budget. When parks and rec were on the chopping block, people were sitting on the floor. Even kids, got up to speak and tell council to save parks so they have activities to participate in.</p>
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		<title>By: Jack</title>
		<link>http://www.waterlandblog.com/2009/12/17/letter-to-the-editor-firefighters-respond-to-city-councils-police-cuts/comment-page-1/#comment-1993</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 23:13:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.waterlandblog.com/?p=3678#comment-1993</guid>
		<description>Ralph:  I think before you start making recommendations as to how to cure this problem you should study and learn some facts.  Block Watches and volunteers don&#039;t intervene in criminal activity, they merely report it.  It won&#039;t do much good for them to repot it when there are not cops to respond and resolve the problem.  Follow some of your own advice the you give Union Gal!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ralph:  I think before you start making recommendations as to how to cure this problem you should study and learn some facts.  Block Watches and volunteers don&#8217;t intervene in criminal activity, they merely report it.  It won&#8217;t do much good for them to repot it when there are not cops to respond and resolve the problem.  Follow some of your own advice the you give Union Gal!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Ralph Nichols</title>
		<link>http://www.waterlandblog.com/2009/12/17/letter-to-the-editor-firefighters-respond-to-city-councils-police-cuts/comment-page-1/#comment-1990</link>
		<dc:creator>Ralph Nichols</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 04:48:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.waterlandblog.com/?p=3678#comment-1990</guid>
		<description>Kristie summarizes well the quandry faced by the Council: police fighting crime vs. recreation programs that can prevent crime. Agree or disagree with their decision, the revenue shortfall was extreme this year (about $2 million). And city residents in numbers demanded that parks and rec be spared the budget axe; the police received only tepid support (in terms of numbers). There was no support for a tax increase, nor without another levy lid lift would one above 1percent have been possible under state law.

Union Gal says, &quot;I’m concerned and confused how Ralph measures recreation to life and death decisions.&quot; I, in turn, am concerned and confused about how she can interprest my statement of what happened as a &quot;measure&quot; of life and death or anything else. As noted above, agree or disagree with the council&#039;s decision, city residents through their public demonstrations of support appeared to side in much larger numbers with parks than with police. That is not a statement of preference nor is it a measurement. It is a quantifiable fact. Then again, facts too often seem to confuse or otherwise inconvenience Union Gal and others in her corner.

Her excuse that some of us work or are looking for work, in addition to all the other demands of daily life, is a pathetic excuse for not paying closer attention to the police budget cut before the fact - especially since Union Gal et al are well known for getting involved (usually quite vocally and often ill informed) when they are self-motivated to do so. 

The proposed police fund sounds like a good idea - certainly, if it can gain momentum, it will show the police department that community residents solidly support them. And with a reduced force, perhaps it will encourage some to volunteer with the department and to join Block Watch efforts to enhance community crime prevention with fewer cops on the streets.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kristie summarizes well the quandry faced by the Council: police fighting crime vs. recreation programs that can prevent crime. Agree or disagree with their decision, the revenue shortfall was extreme this year (about $2 million). And city residents in numbers demanded that parks and rec be spared the budget axe; the police received only tepid support (in terms of numbers). There was no support for a tax increase, nor without another levy lid lift would one above 1percent have been possible under state law.</p>
<p>Union Gal says, &#8220;I’m concerned and confused how Ralph measures recreation to life and death decisions.&#8221; I, in turn, am concerned and confused about how she can interprest my statement of what happened as a &#8220;measure&#8221; of life and death or anything else. As noted above, agree or disagree with the council&#8217;s decision, city residents through their public demonstrations of support appeared to side in much larger numbers with parks than with police. That is not a statement of preference nor is it a measurement. It is a quantifiable fact. Then again, facts too often seem to confuse or otherwise inconvenience Union Gal and others in her corner.</p>
<p>Her excuse that some of us work or are looking for work, in addition to all the other demands of daily life, is a pathetic excuse for not paying closer attention to the police budget cut before the fact &#8211; especially since Union Gal et al are well known for getting involved (usually quite vocally and often ill informed) when they are self-motivated to do so. </p>
<p>The proposed police fund sounds like a good idea &#8211; certainly, if it can gain momentum, it will show the police department that community residents solidly support them. And with a reduced force, perhaps it will encourage some to volunteer with the department and to join Block Watch efforts to enhance community crime prevention with fewer cops on the streets.</p>
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		<title>By: Kristy</title>
		<link>http://www.waterlandblog.com/2009/12/17/letter-to-the-editor-firefighters-respond-to-city-councils-police-cuts/comment-page-1/#comment-1989</link>
		<dc:creator>Kristy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 19:53:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.waterlandblog.com/?p=3678#comment-1989</guid>
		<description>I think Kristie has a great idea. I would absolutely be willing to help with a fund to keep the police officers. I wouldn&#039;t know where to begin to get something like this started but if anyone has any ideas that would be great!
If we as a community choose to do nothing than the city council will make all of our choices for us and our community will decline more than it already has.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Kristie has a great idea. I would absolutely be willing to help with a fund to keep the police officers. I wouldn&#8217;t know where to begin to get something like this started but if anyone has any ideas that would be great!<br />
If we as a community choose to do nothing than the city council will make all of our choices for us and our community will decline more than it already has.</p>
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		<title>By: Kristie</title>
		<link>http://www.waterlandblog.com/2009/12/17/letter-to-the-editor-firefighters-respond-to-city-councils-police-cuts/comment-page-1/#comment-1988</link>
		<dc:creator>Kristie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 18:29:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.waterlandblog.com/?p=3678#comment-1988</guid>
		<description>If Jack is right, then that should be about $30- $40  per home.  Maybe I have spent too much time in elementary schools, and this may sound very silly, but is it possible to create a fund, maybe a sort of &quot;Support Our Police Officers&quot; fund to pay the salaries for this year? Even if we were not successful, the fact that we tried might make a difference.   And we need  to be sure that we shop and eat out more in Des Moines in 2010 to raise revenues for 2011.

 I also think Ralph is right.  We need to voice our concerns.  But again, as an educator, I would remind you that the police fight current crime.  Parks and Recreation Programs provide a sense of community and belonging that reduces future crime.  Children who are involved in sports programs and community events are less likely to get into the trouble that happens when they are left to fend for themselves while parents work.  Yes I know that many people say &quot;well, parents shouldn&#039;t work..&quot; but if you have a child and you have to pay bills, your options are limited. 

The thing my husband and I love about Des Moines is the small town feeling.  To us that means the feeling that people know and  care about one another.  It was amazing the other night at the Argosy Christmas event.   I think that by working together we can solve the problems that face us.

I will try to watch the Blog emails for announcements about future council meetings and make time to attend and  learn more about the issues facing our community.  

Thank everyone for providing additional information about this topic and may everyone have a wonderful Holiday.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If Jack is right, then that should be about $30- $40  per home.  Maybe I have spent too much time in elementary schools, and this may sound very silly, but is it possible to create a fund, maybe a sort of &#8220;Support Our Police Officers&#8221; fund to pay the salaries for this year? Even if we were not successful, the fact that we tried might make a difference.   And we need  to be sure that we shop and eat out more in Des Moines in 2010 to raise revenues for 2011.</p>
<p> I also think Ralph is right.  We need to voice our concerns.  But again, as an educator, I would remind you that the police fight current crime.  Parks and Recreation Programs provide a sense of community and belonging that reduces future crime.  Children who are involved in sports programs and community events are less likely to get into the trouble that happens when they are left to fend for themselves while parents work.  Yes I know that many people say &#8220;well, parents shouldn&#8217;t work..&#8221; but if you have a child and you have to pay bills, your options are limited. </p>
<p>The thing my husband and I love about Des Moines is the small town feeling.  To us that means the feeling that people know and  care about one another.  It was amazing the other night at the Argosy Christmas event.   I think that by working together we can solve the problems that face us.</p>
<p>I will try to watch the Blog emails for announcements about future council meetings and make time to attend and  learn more about the issues facing our community.  </p>
<p>Thank everyone for providing additional information about this topic and may everyone have a wonderful Holiday.</p>
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		<title>By: Union Gal</title>
		<link>http://www.waterlandblog.com/2009/12/17/letter-to-the-editor-firefighters-respond-to-city-councils-police-cuts/comment-page-1/#comment-1985</link>
		<dc:creator>Union Gal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 05:02:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.waterlandblog.com/?p=3678#comment-1985</guid>
		<description>I can’t believe it, but again I’m going to have to agree with Ralph on some of his points! If I understand this correctly we are dumb and not informed! It’s our fault that we’re working to hard to keep our jobs while others are too busy trying to find work instead of paying close attention to what those Town council folks were doing to our #1 priority!  
Now I won’t be haggling over old news and maybe even who might have threatened who, but, in my newly educated opinion, is it really wise to cut cops now, or is it smarter to spend some of that savings money they talked about having spent in earlier years when they were short handed. I know that’s what I do with my savings when I’m short handed.
I know our Town lost a cop some time ago, and sadly two other near enough Towns lost some cops just a month ago. Now I’ve heard just yesterday our cops had to take someone’s life. How much more dangerous should it get before our Town council wakes up, just like they did when those park’s folks showed up. I’m concerned and confused how Ralph measures recreation to life and death decisions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can’t believe it, but again I’m going to have to agree with Ralph on some of his points! If I understand this correctly we are dumb and not informed! It’s our fault that we’re working to hard to keep our jobs while others are too busy trying to find work instead of paying close attention to what those Town council folks were doing to our #1 priority!<br />
Now I won’t be haggling over old news and maybe even who might have threatened who, but, in my newly educated opinion, is it really wise to cut cops now, or is it smarter to spend some of that savings money they talked about having spent in earlier years when they were short handed. I know that’s what I do with my savings when I’m short handed.<br />
I know our Town lost a cop some time ago, and sadly two other near enough Towns lost some cops just a month ago. Now I’ve heard just yesterday our cops had to take someone’s life. How much more dangerous should it get before our Town council wakes up, just like they did when those park’s folks showed up. I’m concerned and confused how Ralph measures recreation to life and death decisions.</p>
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		<title>By: Ralph Nichols</title>
		<link>http://www.waterlandblog.com/2009/12/17/letter-to-the-editor-firefighters-respond-to-city-councils-police-cuts/comment-page-1/#comment-1981</link>
		<dc:creator>Ralph Nichols</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Dec 2009 05:28:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.waterlandblog.com/?p=3678#comment-1981</guid>
		<description>I have but two questions:

1. If all of you (and others, it is reasonable to assume) are so concerned now about police staffing and public safety locally and having the revenue to avoid cutting cops, where were you and why weren&#039;t you coming to Des Moines City Council meetings to make your voices heard in support of the police budget BEFORE final approval of the 2010 city budget?

2. Why didn&#039;t you get involved and organize a public show of support equal to or even larger than the near-spontaneous outcry that erupted when just the mere mention of cutting Parks and Rec was made?

This city council has had to cut about $3 million from the city&#039;s general fund in less than two years. I, too, support well-staffed police services. But council members, whether they made the best decisions or not, were faced with limited options this time around. And ultimately, the blame is not on them: &quot;The fault, dear Brutus, lies not in the stars but with ourselves.&quot; 

Again, where were you when your voices needed to be heard? In almost 10 years of observing Highline cities, I never cease to be amazed: some years, the combined number of people who attend and speak at all public hearings and other meetings where annual budgets are discussed in Des Moines, SeaTac, Normandy Park, and Burien combined can be totalled with the fingers on one hand.

Good government demands more from all citizens at all levels.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have but two questions:</p>
<p>1. If all of you (and others, it is reasonable to assume) are so concerned now about police staffing and public safety locally and having the revenue to avoid cutting cops, where were you and why weren&#8217;t you coming to Des Moines City Council meetings to make your voices heard in support of the police budget BEFORE final approval of the 2010 city budget?</p>
<p>2. Why didn&#8217;t you get involved and organize a public show of support equal to or even larger than the near-spontaneous outcry that erupted when just the mere mention of cutting Parks and Rec was made?</p>
<p>This city council has had to cut about $3 million from the city&#8217;s general fund in less than two years. I, too, support well-staffed police services. But council members, whether they made the best decisions or not, were faced with limited options this time around. And ultimately, the blame is not on them: &#8220;The fault, dear Brutus, lies not in the stars but with ourselves.&#8221; </p>
<p>Again, where were you when your voices needed to be heard? In almost 10 years of observing Highline cities, I never cease to be amazed: some years, the combined number of people who attend and speak at all public hearings and other meetings where annual budgets are discussed in Des Moines, SeaTac, Normandy Park, and Burien combined can be totalled with the fingers on one hand.</p>
<p>Good government demands more from all citizens at all levels.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.waterlandblog.com/2009/12/17/letter-to-the-editor-firefighters-respond-to-city-councils-police-cuts/comment-page-1/#comment-1969</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Dec 2009 03:14:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.waterlandblog.com/?p=3678#comment-1969</guid>
		<description>Kristie: We all as tax payers should expect our dollars are spent wisely by those that collect them. 

For me Police is the priority, Parks are nice to have sure, but should they get funding ahead of police in a funding crises like this? 

In the short term what can be done? Passing a new levy or bond takes time, these cops are on the way out the door anytime now. Five cops really doesn&#039;t tell the entire tale. 

There are unfunded and non filled positions as well as the five on the chopping block. As I recall the real number of lost positions will be more like 8-10 spots. I&#039;m pretty sure that&#039;s about 25% of the departments staffing.

I would hope that the council would redirect the cuts to reflect a more in tune with reality approach. 

I&#039;m not at all in favor of tall buildings downtown but there can and should be middle ground on redevelopment. For what its worth, a few years ago as a project for what I think was a UW architectural class they came up with a plan for Des Moines.

It was shown off at the Farmers Market,very cool...but it just went away, too bad. I own two homes in Des Moines and like Jack I think its time to clean house on the council. Care to run with Jack and I?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kristie: We all as tax payers should expect our dollars are spent wisely by those that collect them. </p>
<p>For me Police is the priority, Parks are nice to have sure, but should they get funding ahead of police in a funding crises like this? </p>
<p>In the short term what can be done? Passing a new levy or bond takes time, these cops are on the way out the door anytime now. Five cops really doesn&#8217;t tell the entire tale. </p>
<p>There are unfunded and non filled positions as well as the five on the chopping block. As I recall the real number of lost positions will be more like 8-10 spots. I&#8217;m pretty sure that&#8217;s about 25% of the departments staffing.</p>
<p>I would hope that the council would redirect the cuts to reflect a more in tune with reality approach. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not at all in favor of tall buildings downtown but there can and should be middle ground on redevelopment. For what its worth, a few years ago as a project for what I think was a UW architectural class they came up with a plan for Des Moines.</p>
<p>It was shown off at the Farmers Market,very cool&#8230;but it just went away, too bad. I own two homes in Des Moines and like Jack I think its time to clean house on the council. Care to run with Jack and I?</p>
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		<title>By: Jack</title>
		<link>http://www.waterlandblog.com/2009/12/17/letter-to-the-editor-firefighters-respond-to-city-councils-police-cuts/comment-page-1/#comment-1968</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Dec 2009 01:01:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.waterlandblog.com/?p=3678#comment-1968</guid>
		<description>Kristie:  I don&#039;t think the cost would be very much.  As I recall, the current law enforcement levy provides about $1.5 million a year and I believe the cost to the average homeowner is about $100 (I think).  I&#039;m sure you could contact city hall and they could tell you the amount.  The projected cost saving for the 5 officers being laid off is $500,000.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kristie:  I don&#8217;t think the cost would be very much.  As I recall, the current law enforcement levy provides about $1.5 million a year and I believe the cost to the average homeowner is about $100 (I think).  I&#8217;m sure you could contact city hall and they could tell you the amount.  The projected cost saving for the 5 officers being laid off is $500,000.</p>
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		<title>By: Kristie</title>
		<link>http://www.waterlandblog.com/2009/12/17/letter-to-the-editor-firefighters-respond-to-city-councils-police-cuts/comment-page-1/#comment-1963</link>
		<dc:creator>Kristie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 21:16:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.waterlandblog.com/?p=3678#comment-1963</guid>
		<description>Thank you for the history lesson.  We purchased a home here recently and are not aware of all the history, but I also think that the immediate situation needs attention.  Although I personally would keep height restrictions, I do agree that we need more business develpment.  However, that is a future plan and is not going to solve the immediate crisis.   And concessions to businesses mean that the ability to impact the situation would be even further in the future.

So we are back to the immediate problem: Five police officers will be gone from the Des Moines Police Department if we do not raise the funds to cover their salary.  How much would it cost each property owner to cover that cost?   Are we talking thousands of dollars each or a small amount like the pool?  I suspect that most people would be willing to pay  to retain the current level of funding for both Police and for the Parks and Recreation Department, as they both provide excellent services to our community.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for the history lesson.  We purchased a home here recently and are not aware of all the history, but I also think that the immediate situation needs attention.  Although I personally would keep height restrictions, I do agree that we need more business develpment.  However, that is a future plan and is not going to solve the immediate crisis.   And concessions to businesses mean that the ability to impact the situation would be even further in the future.</p>
<p>So we are back to the immediate problem: Five police officers will be gone from the Des Moines Police Department if we do not raise the funds to cover their salary.  How much would it cost each property owner to cover that cost?   Are we talking thousands of dollars each or a small amount like the pool?  I suspect that most people would be willing to pay  to retain the current level of funding for both Police and for the Parks and Recreation Department, as they both provide excellent services to our community.</p>
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